Are VS10XX Plugins Standalone?

Designing hardware that use VLSI Solution's devices as the system controller for the entire design.
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bayviewboom
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Are VS10XX Plugins Standalone?

Post by bayviewboom » Wed 2019-12-04 15:30

Can VS10XX Plugins work without external uC?
http://www.vlsi.fi/en/support/software/ ... ugins.html

thx

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pasi
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Re: Are VS10XX Plugins Standalone?

Post by pasi » Wed 2019-12-04 16:01

Generally vs10xx applications are designed to work standalone (edit: without external uC). They boot from SPI EEPROM and perform their own function.

Plugins..., they enhance the decoder or encoder functions. They generally do not work with applications, because they use the same instruction and data memory.

Thus, if functions provided by the plugins are needed by the application, they must be included in the application itself.
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bayviewboom
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Re: Are VS10XX Plugins Standalone?

Post by bayviewboom » Wed 2019-12-04 19:54

I'm confused. Not trying to combine applications with plugins. I'm not talking about applications.
Why do you mention applications?

thx

Hannu
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Re: Are VS10XX Plugins Standalone?

Post by Hannu » Thu 2019-12-05 9:17

Applications are standalone solutions. They are booted from SPI flash. Plugins are feature extensions which are sent through SCi interface with micro controller.

For example equalizer is application on http://www.vlsi.fi/en/support/software/ ... tions.html It is sent started from SPI flash.
When that kind of device is made, it takes analog audio in, changes the frequency response and sends it out. No micro controller needed.

On the other hand if you happen to have the microcontroller available, you can send for example EQ5 plugin and the output frequency response will be changed. But you can also decode MP3s, use AD etc. so plugin added a feature to your system.

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pasi
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Re: Are VS10XX Plugins Standalone?

Post by pasi » Thu 2019-12-05 12:11

Can you give an example of a plugin you have in mind?

To me plugins without microcontroller are useless, because without microcontroller there is no encoding or decoding going on in the first place.
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bayviewboom
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Re: Are VS10XX Plugins Standalone?

Post by bayviewboom » Thu 2019-12-05 12:38

pasi wrote:
Thu 2019-12-05 12:11
Can you give an example of a plugin you have in mind? To me plugins without microcontroller are useless, because without microcontroller there is no encoding or decoding going on in the first place.
From @Hannu 's answer, it seems plugins require a uC, and cannot be used at all without a uC. Is that correct?

thx!

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pasi
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Re: Are VS10XX Plugins Standalone?

Post by pasi » Thu 2019-12-05 17:07

bayviewboom wrote:
Thu 2019-12-05 12:38
From @Hannu 's answer, it seems plugins require a uC, and cannot be used at all without a uC. Is that correct?
I still don't fully understand what you're asking. vs10xx series of chips are slave decoders, they do nothing without a microcontroller (or an application loaded from SPI EEPROM/FLASH).

I can think of one case where plugins and "without uC" would be sensible:
- Connect a PC to vs10xx UART.
- Using the emulator protocol, load a plugin/patch (through UART) which receives bitstream from UART (instead of SCI). Or load the plugin/patch code from SPI EEPROM/FLASH.
- PC can now send the data to decode through UART. (Needs some flow control for variable bitrate files.)

So, it depends on your definition of "require a uC", "without uC", and plugin.
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Panu
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Re: Are VS10XX Plugins Standalone?

Post by Panu » Thu 2019-12-05 19:47

Hi, John, and welcome to the forum!
bayviewboom wrote:
Wed 2019-12-04 19:54
I'm confused. Not trying to combine applications with plugins. I'm not talking about applications.
Why do you mention applications?
I think it's because you mentioned loading without a uC. And applications are loaded without uC. Plugins are basically always loaded with a microcontroller, although a counter-example could be constructed if need be.

But, to avoid further confusement, please answer Pasi's question about what you are, in general, trying to do? An MP3 player? A guitar effects machine? A talking toy? And if you are planning to use a microcontroller in your product, or not. These would help us to narrow down the topic and give you information that is actually useful, and not just generic remarks about what would be possible theoretically.

-Panu
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Re: Are VS10XX Plugins Standalone?

Post by bayviewboom » Fri 2019-12-06 0:49

Panu wrote:
Thu 2019-12-05 19:47
Hi, John, and welcome to the forum!
Thx, Panu!
Plugins are basically always loaded with a microcontroller, although a counter-example could be constructed if need be.
Ok, that helps!
in general, trying to do?
A lowest-parts-count, no-uC equalizer, with fixed permanent eq settings and line-level in/out. CD-quality or better (at least 16-bit, 44.1 kHz)

No other functions needed (no MP3, no amplifier, no other effects, etc).
So i'm looking at all your equalizer apps and plugins.
Need at least 5 bands, so simple bass/treble controls is not sufficient.

Very interesting that plug-ins can work without uC-- maybe that can help us reduce parts-count? Or simplify development? Or simplify configuration?

It's fine and expected that a PC or uC is needed for initial configuration of the device.

Now, here's my counter-example: :oops:
We want to market a lowest-parts-count equalizer module, to enable hardware devs to apply their preferred fixed eq-settings to their hardware. It's ok if our module contains a uC, if that will reduce parts-count and/or cost, as long as devs who are integrating the module into their system never have to go into code to configure their eq settings (or go into code for any other reason).

At the moment, we're looking at the VS1053b with your equalizer application.

cheers

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pasi
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Re: Are VS10XX Plugins Standalone?

Post by pasi » Tue 2019-12-10 11:57

bayviewboom wrote:
Fri 2019-12-06 0:49
A lowest-parts-count, no-uC equalizer, with fixed permanent eq settings and line-level in/out. CD-quality or better (at least 16-bit, 44.1 kHz)
That's a good example of an application, taking control over the vs10xx IC and requiring no external microcontroller.

See the vs1053/vs1063 Equalizer app from http://www.vlsi.fi/en/support/software/ ... tions.html , in the document chapter 10 - Programming and Running the Standalone Version. This version is compiled with fixed filter parameters, converted into bootable code, then programmed into SPI EEPROM, to be loaded by vs1053/vs1063 after reset.
bayviewboom wrote:
Fri 2019-12-06 0:49
It's fine and expected that a PC or uC is needed for initial configuration of the device.
You can load the EQ application through SCI, and control it using a microcontroller, or you can load the code using vs3emu using UART, but you can also use the standalone version with fixed parameters.

1. uC, load code through SCI, provide button functions to alter filter parameters, configure them through SCI.
2. PC, load code through UART, configure filters through UART,
3. Standalone, load code from SPI EEPROM/FLASH, use fixed filter parameters edited into the boot image.

There is currently no source code available, but optionally, a simple user interface with a couple of buttons could be added to control the filters.
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